Revelation 4 and 5

I am reading Revelations so I thought I'd share these verses. In these two chapters, it gives us a glimpse of what happens in heaven. The whole Bible tells us that there is one God and we should only worship one God. Yet here, it is clear that Jesus is the Lamb and he is worshiped in the same manner and together with God Almighty in heaven. One sits on the throne and the other standing in the center of the throne or in the middle of the throne by another translation or Greek. I also notice that it is not just one of them, but both of them are surrounded by the 4 living creatures and 24 elders. Who is on the throne? Is he sitting or standing or both? I thought our human mind might not be able to comprehend fully things in heaven. But heavenly revelation certainly sets an example for us to follow. If the 4 living creatures and 24 elders can bow down to worship both God and Jesus. It is pretty safe for us to follow the pattern in heaven. If we don't, we have to think that we know something more than they do. We cannot allow our human mind to limit who God is. This is something that we have to use our faith in God and the Bible instead of our brain to understand who God is. This is the uniqueness about Christianity. We do not believe in the God we invent with our mind. The God invented by our mind will be limited by our mind. We believe in the God who reveals himself to us. So there will be some mystery of God that we do not fully understand or comprehend.

Revelation 4
[6] ... In the center, around the throne, were four living creatures, ...
[10] the twenty-four elders fall down before him who sits on the throne, and worship him who lives for ever and ever. They lay their crowns before the throne and say: [11] “You are worthy, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, for you created all things, and by your will they were created and have their being.”

Revelation 5
[6] Then I saw a Lamb, looking as if it had been slain, standing in the center of the throne, encircled by the four living creatures and the elders.

[8] And when he had taken it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp and they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. [9] And they sang a new song: “You are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals, because you were slain, and with your blood you purchased men for God from every tribe and language and people and nation.

[13] Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, singing: “To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be praise and honor and glory and power, for ever and ever!”
[14] The four living creatures said, “Amen,” and the elders fell down and worshiped.

Salvation - Eternal Security

Can we lose our salvation? Are we saved once for all? I agree with you that this is not a question without any debate. We can find several passages in the NT that creates problems in this view. We can also find passages in the NT to affirm this view.

Hebrews 6:4-6 may be used most often for this discussion to show that there is a possibility of losing one's salvation.
It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

But later in v.9 (Even though we speak like this, dear friends, we are confident of better things in your case—things that accompany salvation.) and other passages seem to indicate something different, to affirm the eternal security.

Since we are not God, we will never know what is in people's heart. Is a person's confession genuine? Or is it a lip service for other purposes? Therefore, it will not be clear to us if someone loses his salvation or if he was never saved in the first place. I can think of two passages to indicate such possibility.

Jesus' response to some in Matthew 7:21-23:
"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

From Jesus' response, we can be sure that some of the people will be surprised when they stand in front of the great white throne for judgment. They thought that they were saved, but Jesus said that he does not know them at all. So we need to be sure that our grounds for salvation is sound. It cannot be based on our own thinking.

Apostle John also made similar comments in 1 John 2:19
They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.

When I have more time, I will share some verses that indicate our eternal security.

Bible Reading

I just finished reading Proverbs. I am reading the Ecclesiastes now. There are so much good proverbs and insights into life. I feel that I need to read it slowly and read it over and over. God's word is a lamp onto my feet and light onto my path.
(Ps. 119:105)

How's your study? What are you reading?

Just a test. 试试看。

Berean

I chose the name Berean because they are the ones that are serious about the Bible and what they heard and study the Bible diligently. Hopefully we will model after them.

Acts 17:11
Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.